Let's Talk Income Protection

Cover that Fits – Comprehensive Protection Built on What Matters – Menu & Multi-Benefit Plans

• Income Protection Task Force • Season 2 • Episode 7

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In the latest episode of Let’s Talk Income Protection, Matt and Stevie dive into the rise of menu plans. More advisers are recommending combinations of products like life, critical illness, and income protection together. 

To help us dive into this topic this month, we’ve got two fantastic guests joining us today, firstly Zoe Mears from iPipeline to dig into what the latest data is telling us about trends in this space and then we speak to Gemma Sawyer from Switch Financial Services to get a real-world view from the adviser side.  

Income protection usage is growing significantly, with multi-benefit plans showing a strong upward trend as advisers deliver more comprehensive protection recommendations to clients. 

Listen now to learn more about: 
 
• How income protection sales up 15% year-on-year, with even stronger growth in multi-benefit structures 
• Why multi-benefit plans now account for 33.7% of all applications through iPipeline 
• Why income protection now features in half of the top 10 multi-benefit combinations, up from 30% last year 
• How short-term income protection with 4 and 13-week deferred periods dominates multi-benefit plans

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Produced and edited by SEA Studios

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to let's Talk Income Protection, season 2, episode 7. This is the podcast that breaks down everything you need to know about income protection, whether you're an experienced advisor or just starting out. We'll give you actionable insights, expert interviews and, of course, valuable unstructured CPD points. I'm Stevie Arnoldi, the Content Associate for the IPTF, and, as always, I'm joined by the Protection Coach, matt Chapman. Mr Chapman, how are you doing this fine day?

Speaker 2:

I'm doing very well. Thanks, stevie. It's great to be recording another episode and I think this one's going to be really, really helpful for the advisors out there as we delve into the world of multi-benefits and menu plans, which is a hot topic right now. But no, I'm doing really well, mate. I've been on the road a lot the last couple of weeks and months. I've been doing a lot of work with the Personal Finance Society, which has been great. So I've been doing these events where I've been joining their summer roadshow, chatting to different advisors, and it's given me an opportunity to sort of explore how income protection can support them in their general financial planning conversations. So feel like I've been doing a bit of a world tour, which is great. But it's just another opportunity for me to share the good word of income protection and kind of get it out there preaching what I believe about the importance of it. So yeah, good fun, mate, good fun.

Speaker 1:

How are you Very good. Thank you Very good. Yeah, looking forward to delving into this hot topic Interesting about your world tour. Is there been anything in particular that has stood out? Was there one particular insight that was a fresh perspective for you?

Speaker 2:

panel was speaking about helping those with learning difficulties, so she was basically doing a talk on how to be more aware of those with vulnerabilities and making sure that when you're doing financial planning, you consider those into the advice process, which I thought was really, really insightful. It was really interesting to listen to. There was another great chat about neuro-linguistic programming, so one of the colleagues I've been working with there has been doing a great talk about that. But I think for me, the one thing that has been thematic is actually about customer goals.

Speaker 2:

So what tends to happen when we go through an advice process is we tend to think right, well, customers come to us. We might make some assumptions around what those goals actually look like. It could be well we think they're coming to us for a mortgage or we think they're coming to us for a pension, when in actual fact it's not the product that's the goal, it's the thing that sits behind it home ownership or actually retiring at a certain age with a certain amount of money. But then what we need to think is okay, well then, thinking about what we've got in our toolkit. So what can we do when we open up the toolkit? What have we got in terms of the resources inside it that can help the customer achieve the goal.

Speaker 2:

And I think the more we better identify and better clarify customer goals, the easier it is for us to demonstrate the role that income protection plays in particular in helping them achieve that same goal and objective. So that's been kind of the major theme that I've took away, which I think I already incorporate into my coaching activity anyway. But I think it's become very apparent to me how important it is as advisors, as an advice community, that we get very clear as to what the customer goal is, because then it's very easy to see not just the role that income protection plays but actually our responsibility under consumer duty to make sure that goal is achievable and we both highlight and overcome the potential risks that would stop a customer from achieving them, given it's their goal, not ours.

Speaker 1:

That's fascinating. You say that when I recently got my income protection, my advisor did exactly that and I spoke about my goals, what I wanted to achieve, and we worked our way back from there and I must say it was a great way to go about it. It made me feel like we are progressing towards that goal, sort of together.

Speaker 2:

It's funny, mate, because we often, particularly in the mortgage world anyway we have this initial assumption right that the mortgage is the objective. Someone comes to oh, I've come to you for a mortgage and I've actually heard advisors say the phrase customer came to me for a mortgage, not for protection, as in. That's why I justify why I don't discuss things like income protection. But the biggest problem, all that we're all forgetting, is actually the mortgage is not the goal. Nobody wants a mortgage. Really. You know, if you could get away with buying the house in cash and you didn't have to borrow money from the bank and pay interest on it, you probably wouldn't. You wouldn't go and see a mortgage advisor because, quite frankly, you just buy the house outright. So it's not the mortgage, but it's the home. That's the real goal. So it's obviously turning a house into a home and, for those who are remortgaging, maintaining and sustaining a house that they've already bought, that they've already converted into a home. But there's a direct correlation between someone's income and their income continuing and their ability to actually borrow and sustain that liability, ie to retain the home ownership or even buy it in the first place. So for me, this was really about connecting the dots. So in my presentation I was talking a lot around.

Speaker 2:

Once you know what the customer goal is, it's very easy to understand how the income protection solutions we're talking about on these calls, on these podcasts really bed in to help the customer go through that goal. So what you're saying is so true, stevie. A good advisor will say to you as a customer, what are we really trying to achieve here? And you might inadvertently or mistakenly say well, I want to get a mortgage. And a good advisor is going to educate you and say, actually, it's not the mortgage that we're trying to do here.

Speaker 2:

The mortgage is one part of the solution that I've got to help you. The other is going to be making sure that actually this mortgage is achievable and sustainable for you, because whether you've got a mortgage or not got a mortgage, you still want the home. So we're going to make sure you can keep the home right. And then that's how the conversation progresses. So it's really just about this goals analysis exercise and then looking at what solutions that we can use to then help the customer achieve that objective and in your case, as was rightly done, using income protection to safeguard the very income the advisor is using to leverage to get the debt in the first place. So it just becomes logical, it becomes absolutely logical and then customers are more likely to be bought into it.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, matt. Okay, now let's delve into this month's topic, and it's one of the biggest drivers of growth in the protection market right now multi-benefit and menu plans. More and more advisors are recommending combinations of products like life, critical illness and income protection together, and it's leading to better outcomes for clients and more holistic advice. So to help us dive into this topic this month, we've got two fantastic guests joining us today. I'll be speaking first to Zoe Mears from iPipeline to dig into what the latest data is telling us about trends in this space, from theirs and partners Swiss Re's Term and Health Watch report. Then Matt will be chatting to Gemma Sawyer from Switch Financial Services to get a real world view from the advisor's side. So let's get into it. Hi, zoe, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for having me, Stevie.

Speaker 1:

Absolute pleasure. So let's kick things off, shall we? So what has been the story with income protection over the last 12 to 18 months? How has it performed?

Speaker 3:

Really really well. So I mean we've just recently reported in the Swiss Retirement Health Watch that last year income protection was up 15% year-on-year for standalone and we're just continuing to see that trend into this year as well. So we're seeing income protection up. We're also seeing it up as part of multi-benefit as well. So we really think that's kind of being driven by the growth in first-time buyers that we're seeing coming back into the market and we've also had the stamp duty changes that happened at the end of Q1, so at the end of March. So we saw a really big kind of spike in protection generally at the end of Q1 in March. But actually IP fared really well out of that.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so from your report called the term and health watch report, it's clear that we're hearing that multi-benefit plans are on the rise. Can you explain why that is, and by and how much have they grown?

Speaker 3:

so two, two parts to that. So looking at kind of a reason why so, we believe there's been growth in the first time buyers coming back into the. So if you look at the mortgage trends and the mortgage data that you see from people in the market like 27tech, you can see the searches for first-time buyers are definitely increasing, which is really positive to see. They tend to be people who don't have any protection. Therefore, we believe advisors are looking at more of a holistic solution to their protection, whereas where it's when it's customers and it's a remortgage, they may already have some protection in place. So it's more gap filling, and and by how much. So multi-benefit for may this year has accounted for 33.7 percent of all links through ipipeline. So over a third of all applications through iPipeline are coming through as multi benefit. So that's up about 1.5% year on year. So really strong growth in the multi-benefit space. And actually we're seeing growth when it comes specifically to income protection. So income protection is growing more in multi-benefit than it is standalone as well.

Speaker 1:

So what do you think some of the reasons behind that? Do you think it's a case of advisors shifting their view towards value over price? Is it the ability for clients to have more flexibility? What do you think are the reasons, Ari?

Speaker 3:

So I think there's an element of regulation changes. So consumer duty kind of making sure people are having all the conversations. Obviously the good work that people at the IPTF do have done a fantastic job of raising awareness of income protection, so advisors should generally know more about it, to talk about it. I also think there's maybe a shift in behaviour where advisors are moving away a bit from critical illness and going more into IP, so actually making sure that they're covered for all illnesses rather than just critical illnesses. And then it's also interesting to look at from a budget perspective we see more short term IP sold within multi benefit. So actually you can see from that advisors are trying to make sure people have the cover they need within a budget, especially when it comes to that multi-benefit side of things fantastic and thank you so much for that plug there and also to all of the listeners listening.

Speaker 1:

You are part of this change and part of this part of this movement to help people get better protected. So yeah, speaking of income protection Zoe, when income protection is part of a multi-benefit plan, what does that tend to look like in practice?

Speaker 3:

So, as I said, it's definitely more short-term IP. So around 66% of multi-benefit IP is a short-term income protection and we also see a 4 and a 13 week deferred period the most common deferred period. So again, that kind of accounts for about 70 percent of IP in a multi-benefit. But I think what's really interesting to look at Stevie is kind of April 2024, income protection was included in three out of the top 10 multi-benefit combinations. But when we look at April 2025, income protection is in five of the top 10 combinations for multi-benefit combinations. But when we look at April 2025, income protection is in five of the top 10 combinations for multi-benefit quotes. So half of the top 10 includes some form of IP, which is fantastic to see.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that is fantastic indeed Thinking about the future, though there are some challenges that still remain, isn't it so you know provider margins are under pressure due to pricing competition. You know further work needs to be done to improve advisor uptake and client understanding of multi-benefit propositions yeah, absolutely, and I think there's.

Speaker 3:

There's a lot we can do as an industry, especially around flexibility. So, where we are dealing with customers who maybe already have some protection in place, how can we make that work? Making policies more flexible to work alongside people's lives. People live longer. Mortgages are being taken out for longer periods of time. So actually, just because you take a protection policy out when you're 30 and buying your first house, doesn't mean when you're 50 and you're 20 years into your mortgage, actually that protection is the same thing that you need. So I think we need to do a lot around flexibility.

Speaker 1:

And what about the technology that's behind all this? Is there anything that's making things a bit more efficient? I know there's some tools that iPipeline have. You've got the Solution Builder to help easily quote and bundle things together but is there anything else that you're seeing happening that is helping to drive things in the technology space?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so another part of Solution Builder is we have a mortgage and protection risk report. So that allows advisors, when they're dealing with customers who have a mortgage, to look at a client's personalized risk of needing protection. So actually the highest risk you will always see on that report is the risk of being off work sick for more than two months and that focuses on income protection and it then gives the price as to how much that's likely to cost to get some cover in place. So I think the more that we can all do as an industry to support advisors in those conversations with tools such as risk reports, looking at kind of clients risk, bringing awareness, making underwriting easier, easier. Anything that can be done in that area is just going to help make it easier for advisors and speed up the process and if they can spend less time on underwriting, they can spend more time talking to customers and actually having the conversations they need to have about protection oh, exactly 100.

Speaker 1:

So, finally, where do you see income protection growing, particularly in the context of menu planning and multi-benefit?

Speaker 3:

So I think we'll see growth in the two retirement IP which we have started to see over the last few years. It's very much been driven by short term income protection, which has been a worry for some people because after a while obviously those policies stop paying. But I think we're going to continue to see growth into retirement and I think in terms of multi-benefit we're just going to see more, broader combinations that include IP. So I would hope this time next year Stevie, it's not five out of the top 10 combinations, it's more like seven out of the top 10, including income protection.

Speaker 1:

Let's go for 10 out of 10, why not? Let's try and get there for 2026 everybody. Zoe, thank you so much. Um, is there any way you'd like to direct our audience to that are listening now. Is there anything in particular? I, pipeline, or or yourself personally?

Speaker 3:

and I just think we're we're all doing such a fantastic job as an industry as a whole to raise awareness around income protection that we just need to keep talking about it. The more we talk about it, the more we talk to clients, the more we talk to distribution and providers and we understand what people need, the more we can innovate and drive it forward.

Speaker 1:

Zoe, thank you so much. That's everything, and it's a pleasure to have you on and we'll hopefully speak again soon, but thank you so much for being on the show today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 1:

So Zoe Mears from iPipeline there, matt, and it's some interesting stats, isn't it? And obviously great for income protection, but what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean I find all these kind of reports really interesting and I suppose they're very encouraging when we kind of see the growth in income protection, I mean from my perspective I think it's to be expected. We can all see how much more comprehensive income protection is a solution and naturally the industry in a post-COVID environment is recognizing the importance of that ongoing income as part of the advice conversation. So to me it just feels like logical. It's really encouraging for me to see this continued growth because you kind of you can imagine to see a couple of years of busy growth and then it's like does it, does it sustain, can it carry on? So to see like that 15 percent increase is just brilliant.

Speaker 2:

And I think what Zoe mentioned around first time buyers is brilliant because for me this idea that young individuals are getting access to advice around ring fencing their income sources at such an early age and we're almost institutionalizing it or normalizing it as part of an advice conversation for a first-time buyer, for a young individual, I think it's brilliant Because at this point in their advice journey it's great value for money. They're getting very comprehensive cover because typically they haven't experienced some of the health complaints that might make it more difficult for you to take cover out later, meaning they're getting greater protection early on that can hopefully last them through their life cycle. But at this stage in their financial journey, if they're being exposed to these conversations and safeguarding incomes and it becomes normalized, that's a real win for us as an industry, not least of all because obviously we're getting more of these protection contracts in place. But actually, if you think about the fallout effect, so we're now saying people are more likely to be able to borrow with a degree of confidence and repay those liabilities. People are less likely to end up indebted because of income breaks. People are more likely to be able to make pension contributions and end up where they need to be at retirement stage, just because we're having these conversations early on. So for me this is really encouraging and I think advisors probably need to lead into this.

Speaker 2:

No-transcript.

Speaker 1:

Great Well, I'm looking forward to that, Matt. In the meantime, let's get a real-world advisor view from Gemma Sawyer from Switch Financial Services.

Speaker 2:

Well, I am absolutely delighted to have one of my good friends I've known for many, many years Join me today. I've got Gemma Sawyer from Switch Financial Services. So welcome, gemma, great to see you. How are you Good?

Speaker 4:

Thank you, how are you?

Speaker 2:

I'm really good, thank you. I'm really pleased to have you on because obviously you and I have spoke a lot about protection in the past, so this is going to be a hopefully a really good, fun chat between us as we explore this idea of sort of multi-benefit and menu plan options. Correct me if I'm mistaken you're one of our new seven advisors for the IPTF, aren't you?

Speaker 4:

Yes, I am Just started.

Speaker 2:

Very exciting how are you finding that?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's really good. Everyone's been lovely so far. We've met in London yeah, it's exciting. We We've met in London yeah, it's exciting. We're meeting up again tomorrow actually, so yeah, it's really good.

Speaker 2:

Do you know what? I think it's so great, the Seven Advisor Program. Obviously I think it's now since third year, isn't it? It's been absolutely brilliant because it gives us the opportunity to kind of engage with lots more advisors, particularly across different disciplines, obviously showcase the amazing work that you and your cohorts do, and it's just. It's lovely for us because it means that we can sort of really get into the skin of what's happening out there in the market, get feedback from you guys. It just helps us to be even more impactful in the work that we do. But no, welcome aboard. Great to have you. Thank you for joining me today. So I was going to say very quickly, if we could just kick off, I'm really keen to know a bit more about your client base and how protection fits into your advice process at SwitchFS. If you wouldn't mind just giving us a bit of background.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so I work with two mortgage brokers and they sit in estate agents. So we've got an estate agent that we work with two branches and they see the client who's looking at a property with the estate agent and then they pass the client to me. So I see pretty much that's where all my clients come from their mortgage clients. So there's a lot of first-time buyers and then obviously some buying their second home. You know they've bought before and they're moving. So a bit of a mix between single people buying their first property and sort of families who are buying their second property, but pretty much all mortgage related clients that I see at the moment.

Speaker 2:

Amazing. And how does income protection in particular fit into that advice process for you? How do you typically bring it up and introduce it in that kind of mortgage based conversation, whether it's a first time buyer, single occupant, or how do you bring it up and discuss it?

Speaker 4:

So it's the mortgage brokers first of all bringing it up at the beginning. So it's the mortgage brokers first of all bringing it up at the beginning. So when they're sort of getting all the client details doing the fact find it's asking at that point, what's the sick pay, you know getting it in at the early stages so that they know this is going to be important. I've done a lot of work on this exactly. So if we've got single people, you know buying on their own, it's their sole income that's paying for the mortgage. And I think it was you that told me, probably you know how many years the mortgage is 34 years. Do we have 34 years of sick pay? No, we don't usually.

Speaker 4:

So that's where we bring it in. I'm sure that was from you. And then, obviously, if they're families, then you know, is there one main earner? What happens if one of them is off sick? So income protection is always the number one that we're bringing in and it's the thing that really lands with people. It's really easy to understand and it's really straightforward what happens if you can't work. Everyone can understand that.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, well, you heard it here first, right? No, I completely agree, gemma, and you know what. It's lovely to hear you do that, because for me, I think half the problem is in the advice community. We really struggle with this idea of how and when to bring it up, and I love the approach you're taking because it's so logic based. At the end of the day, if someone's looking to take out a mortgage for 30 years as you rightly said, 360 months in which they're expected to pay this liability for in order for them to achieve their goal of home ownership and retain that property, so, like you say, the very simple question is is your income guaranteed for the next 360 months, even when you can't work? And if the answer's no, there is a very logical discussion around what needs to be done to safeguard that income. Especially, it's exactly what's being leveraged to get the debt in the first place.

Speaker 2:

So, no, I love this, I completely agree with you, and for me, that is exactly how advisors should be bringing it up, because it's not a sales pitch. It's based on the very real logic of this need for ongoing income to be able to do it. So we're talking today in this podcast episode around multi-benefits and menu plans and I know they're typically quite distinct things and I think as we go through we'll kind of talk about the right time to bring up either of them in your advice process. But if you were doing recommendations, how many of your recommendations normally involve either menu plan options or multi-benefit options and kind of what drives that choice in your mind? Just selecting between the two, do you think?

Speaker 4:

I think it's a conversation. Always, 100% of the time we're looking at all of the benefits you want to know. There's not one product that does everything that someone needs, so you have to separate them all out. So it's sort of every client would be first of all, like we said, the income. What happens if you're not working? Can you pay for this mortgage? That's one conversation. The next one what happens if you die? If they're, obviously, if they're single, they've got no dependents, no partner, the mortgage is on their own. Then that might not get included in the menu plan, but it's the question.

Speaker 4:

We're asking each of those things individually. Again, what do you want to happen if you're really sick? What needs to happen, you know, does someone else need to help you? Um, would both of you need to take time off work? Have you got kids that you know would be impacted? So all of the things are addressed. So there's always the possibility of a menu plan. It's very, very rare that it's going to be. You only need one thing always, because one product isn't going to do all of those things that someone's going to need.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. I guess, then, more than anything, it's a question that are prioritizing, as you say. So we're saying income's got to be the prioritization because, hey, we all need the money, right, everyone needs the money every month. But then working down through those things and not only helping the customer to understand what's a priority, but also understanding from them what's a priority Is that fair to say?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, 100 percent If they've got work benefits. You know, then maybe the priorities are jigged around are jigged around. The priorities aren't going to be the same for every single person. But yeah, it's about looking at all of the areas to start with working out what is going to be the priority. Like you said, if they haven't got any money coming in each month, then all of those things are going to fall apart very quickly anyway. So usually that is going to be priority number one for most clients. But yeah, so it's always about all of the time introducing all of the different things, looking at all the scenarios and then working out what the priorities are going to be from that conversation.

Speaker 2:

So I mean we talked very quickly, didn't we offline, about the difference between doing a menu plan and a multi-benefit option. With multi-benefit being, you would have multiple products, which I think most advisors who are competently trying to protect a customer comprehensively, let's say, or take a holistic approach would probably need multiple products. Because I think very rarely and you probably agree with me, very rarely do I come across a client where there'd only be one specific need. As you say, there isn't a product that does everything. So naturally it's a case of we're identifying multiple needs and that's obvious that you'd put a multi-benefit policy together because you'd say well, we need income protection, we need a bit of family income benefit, we need a bit of mortgage life cover if they're taking on the debt, for example, and then maybe a bit of kick over here as well.

Speaker 2:

But when would you think about doing a menu plan, for example? If you could walk me through at what point you might go. Actually, a menu plan might be right in this situation and also potentially when it might not be most appropriate, and you just split it between different providers. What's the normal thought process you go through for that?

Speaker 4:

so I think it depends a lot on it's going to be individual client. So you're gonna. I would always look at each product individually with the client, agree all of the details on that product. So we're agreeing, you know, deferred periods, amount of cover, how much. You know each one has got to be separately.

Speaker 4:

But then looking at the overall, so if, for example, if they've got medical issues, you might not be able to split the life with one, the IP with another, the kick with another, because there might only be one or two providers that are going to be best for that medical. Not many clients don't have some medical issues that's going to impact it. So that's a big consideration. Who is actually the best insurer for them? If they've got children, for example, is there an insurer you go? Actually they're really good for the children's cover, so they're not going to be as good. So I don't want to package it all with that one, because they'll be better off having the children's cover with that one. So it's just about it is you have to play with it with every client. There isn't going to be a right or wrong.

Speaker 4:

You're going to have to balance all of those things. Do they want gp appointments? That's a really big one when people have got kids. So you don't want a menu plan with one provider that doesn't do that. You're going to want to have you know a little bit, maybe move some of it with another provider or package it all with one provider. That does you have to just look at literally all of the options and work that out individually.

Speaker 2:

I think you're right. I think it's actually it's a bit of a minefield in some respects, and I'm not trying to overcomplicate it or turn anyone off the idea of doing it. But you're right because I remember when I was advising there's so many permutations. If you're doing, say, four or five different products and then you've even got the risk of do we need to split some of these anyway, to do two soles as opposed to joint for various reasons and there's several advantages of doing that Then all of a sudden you're going well, you could have two with one provider, two with another one over there, and it becomes quite challenging.

Speaker 2:

But I suppose there's a bit of a methodical approach which I really liked. What you said and I think this might be very helpful to the audience is actually having more of a methodical approach on each of the products. Because if you go about it focusing on the individual product and making sure that that meets the base criteria first, above all else, then logically, if there is the same provider that meets those same needs in two or three or four or five of them, then that's when you'd start to bundle it together, I imagine. But I really like your approach because I think if you do it individually across each of the product lines, then where you can bundle them together and it makes sense to do so, and as long as it meets those minimum criteria you've agreed for each, that makes perfect sense.

Speaker 2:

So just a quick question for me to you then when do you think a menu plan is probably most appropriate? Let's say, you've got a customer and you go okay, right, we've connected the dots here. We think that this would be great for these three things, let's say critical illness, life insurance and even family income benefit, with this one provider. What are the kind of main reasons why you would do a menu plan? What could be some of the advantages that the customer could get if you were to bundle it that way?

Speaker 4:

so definitely one gp report if needed. So, whether that's before the actual application or, you know, if they come to claim, obviously they're gonna one. One gp to go to, one gp report, one claims form to fill in. It's going to be much easier to help than one application one application form is always a bonus. Not going to lie, um, and yeah, if, if they are not going to get standard terms, if there is going to be a gp report, then that's only one or even medicals.

Speaker 2:

I imagine only having to do maybe one medical as well. Yeah, one nurse test?

Speaker 4:

yeah, completely. But then there's also, um, usually a product discount. So if you've got more than one policy with one provider, you're going to get a little discount on each of those policies. So it's like a pound £1.50, whatever it is, it's small. But if you've got quite a few, you know, if you've got like four, six policies with one provider, then all of those little discounts add up. So also one direct debit usually as well. So that's when they're looking for their bank statement there's not 15 different things going out every month that they're wondering what that is.

Speaker 2:

So it's nice and it's more straightforward, it's more streamlined and it can be cheaper little bit easier because you've maybe got one set of logins, one, one number to phone to try and manage the policy. If there's, you know, needs to be address updates or changes of anything. I suppose it kind of simplifies things. When might a menu plan not be appropriate?

Speaker 4:

yeah, I think, like you mentioned the friendly societies that would be, they are not doing apart from the sort of special life cover, but they're not doing the kicks, they're not all doing the lives yeah so if you've got someone who's more suited to them so manual workers, um, smokers as well, um, people that aren't necessarily the sort of desk based, you know, normal kind of ones that the insurers would like, the main insurers would like the friendlies are really good for manual workers, smokers, people that are working at heights or doing something slightly unusual, and so you can't do a menu plan with them.

Speaker 4:

You're just looking at the IP so you might still bundle together your life and your kick, because that might still fit together. But then having the IP separately, doing a lot of that at the moment actually using a lot of the friendlies, and they can be cheaper. You know, if you've got smokers, they there are some that aren't going to rate on that so, yeah, definitely I would say manual workers, people with slightly unusual situations also they're just really good because you can speak to them. Yeah, you know, they're not just uh, the computer says no to this you can actually call them and go through stuff. So if you've got something slightly more complicated, then they will take a view. Quite a lot of the time you can actually speak to a human a bit easier.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I think for me, one of the main areas where menu plans can be very, very helpful in particular for the audience listening is I remember when I was doing sort of multiple life policies. The audience listening is I remember when I was doing sort of multiple life policies, I felt that that was a great way of bundling them together, because when I was doing family income benefit in particular, there's often be different step off points where the need would reduce, ie kids reached adulthood and financial independence. Then you had a spouse or partner needing it for a significant amount of time. So there'd be these different drop off points. You'd almost want to split them into multiple policies. So again, that made a lot of sense to have them with one provider, because you could then go through one application and we knew it was all going to end up with very similar underwriting because it's a life-based contract, rather than having a bit of kick here, a bit of that there, a bit of this there. So yeah, I completely agree with you.

Speaker 2:

I can definitely see the value. I mean, I'm really intrigued to know from you if you've got advisors out there who may be unfamiliar with doing menu plans, if you've got advisors who maybe have seen others doing it because, like stevie mentioned earlier, we've seen a bit of a surge in the minute around the menu plans being written and it is contributing quite a significant amount to the growth of our industry. So clearly, this is something that eyes are on and advisors using it, maybe for simplicity, maybe for ease, maybe for speed, I don't know. But what's really interesting is, I think, if it's, if it's something that people are thinking about doing and they haven't yet, it'd be good to get your advice, gemma, on kind of what you think. If you could give like one piece of advice to advisors who are not yet using menu plans, what do you think it would be? What do you think you'd suggest to them?

Speaker 4:

That's really difficult, literally, I think. Just do it. Just look at each thing separately to start with, like get everything right on the each individual um. So don't just think you know we're doing a mortgage, we need some life cover. Actually look at the whole situation. What happens if this, what happens if that? Look at if everything individually and then try and bundle it together. If you can, then it's. Don't make it like this whole big thing to start with, like actually get all of the details together and then, once you start looking, I use solution builder.

Speaker 2:

So at the top, it's automatically for you, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly this is it joined together.

Speaker 4:

These are it separately? This is it completely separately? It it actually? And when you start to play with that and when you become familiar with that, it is actually a lot easier than you think and you're actually building the proper resilience, like you mentioned, for the client, not just okay if the if the worst happens. We're doing this and we've ticked that box. You're actually looking at everything and it's not as difficult as it sounds. Once you, once you get into use the system, it's there to help you literally visualize if it's together, if it's separate. This is what it's going to look like.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's really great tips there Leveraging technology, which is pretty much doing half the work for you, and then you'll be able to analyze the difference between them.

Speaker 2:

I think what I really love about what you said there is kind of not overthinking it so much.

Speaker 2:

I think we do have a habit as advisors particularly with the plethora of options, we've got to almost overthink what we do and sometimes overcomplicate it. I think going back to basics which is what I'm really taking away from what you're saying today is just get the individual needs for each of those product lines sorted first, then look at what that would look like and then start packaging it together to see what the best option might be for the customer. Now it may be that the customer is more than happy for you to make that decision for them. It may be that the customer isn't that bothered about having them all together, or actually would prefer them all together. How do you normally engage with customers in terms of their understanding of what it is you're trying to do when you do this? I mean, do you tend to find that customers are keen to put it all with one provider, or do you tend to find it's more an advisor-led discussion rather than customer-led discussion?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, to be honest, I think it's more of an advisor-led discussion. Most of the clients that I see if especially if they're first-time buyers they have never, ever thought about this before, so they're happy for me to lead them into what I recommend. Um, so, yeah, it's. It's normally advisor led. If they've got some stuff already, you know, maybe they've got a bit more of an understanding, then that will be more of a discussion. But most people are happy. We're advisors. Most people are happy to take our advice on on what's best for them.

Speaker 2:

And, yeah, if it means a couple of applications instead of one, most people are happy for that when they see, you know, if you point out the reasons why you want to separate the policies out or you want to keep them together people would yeah, they're happy to go with with I've said it, I've said it all along I I think for me that the key to all of this whether it be bringing up protection in the first place or packaging the way you're suggesting either way is managing people's expectations.

Speaker 2:

I think when we take time to educate and explain the rationale behind what we're doing whether that be well, I've picked this product because you need income every month, this is the most appropriate product for you and everyone else for that matter or we're bundling it together with this one because of the following reasons or this, and this is why it benefits you, or this is why I'm doing it. I don't think anyone really minds what's happening, as long as we're managing expectations. I think what tends to happen is when we ambush people or we don't explain why we're doing things. That's when that communication breaks down and people don't quite understand it. So I guess what I'm taking from what you're saying is actually it's all about communicating to the customer the core need and then the rationale behind any decision to do multi-benefit or menu plan, for that matter and explaining why it benefits both customer and you, and anything else for that matter. So everyone understands why it's being done and then I'm assuming there's no issues, right? No misunderstandings.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, exactly, just make it, make it really clear always, whether you're talking to someone about it or whether you're emailing it with all of the information. It's just making it really clear exactly what each product does. And then, yeah, if you've bundled them together, why. If you haven't, why? And yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I completely agree. I think for me, one of the keys to my success when I was an advisor was probably actually that educational bit you're just talking about. For me, I found that I had a lot more engagement with my customers when I went through this process of educating them as to why I'm starting with this product, why I'm doing this product next, because at this point this is no longer a sales process, right, it's very much an advised process, and I think we often forget that. You know, even in the language we use in the industry, we tend to talk about the arranging of mortgages, the arranging of pensions, but the sale of pure protection. So sometimes we in our minds almost think this is a sales process, but it's just an extension or continuation of any kind of advice. There's no difference between the advice you're giving to what the mortgage advisor is doing, because they're both important. They're both crucial to the customer achieving a goal or an objective. It's just that we tend to often think it's a sales process, but when you do the educational bit, just like the mortgage advisor, goes. Well, why are we picking a two-year fixed rate mortgage? Well, because I asked you these questions. You gave me these answers. This is therefore the most appropriate for you. It's no different with protection, and then, whether you're doing a multi or a menu, it doesn't really matter, because the customer truly understands why they're taking out and why it benefits them. So I think this has been super insightful.

Speaker 2:

And, joe, it's brilliant because I've worked with you for a few years now and I just look at the way in which you approach protection and the way in which you go through your advice process and it just fills me with pride, because this is how I kind of want to see it being done in the industry. I love the way you go about doing things in terms of prioritizing, comprehensiveness of your approach. I just love the way that you engage with the customer. You're always looking for the best outcomes, because I think that's kind of like the standard that we should all be aspiring towards. So it's lovely to hear how you do this. It's brilliant to see you doing so well, and I can't thank you enough for jumping on today and even joining the seven advisors cohort for this year as well. Is there any? I was going to say before we finish, if you wouldn't mind. How can anyone find you on social media? Are you on social media?

Speaker 4:

I am jemma underscore protection specialist on instagram, and I am on linkedin as myself as well, obviously, and yeah, switch fs. We're also on linkedin and instagram as well, and we just joined uh tiktok because of iptf um today, which is slightly terrifying. Oh, yes, yes iptf tiktok.

Speaker 2:

you are ahead of me on that one. We were going to talk about this today. So obviously the IPTF have launched a new TikTok account. We're literally brand new, fresh to TikTok, and there's going to be some awesome content out there coming up, including starting with the seven family stories, which is going to be really, really powerful. So anyone on TikTok hit us up at the IPTF. That's fantastic. Well done. Look at that free plug. I love that. Listen, gemma. Honestly, it's an absolute pleasure to have you here today. I'm very grateful for you taking time to come speak to us today. It's great to have you part of the seven advisors cohort and wishing you every success for the future. Thank you so much again. Really insightful stuff today, thanks.

Speaker 4:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2:

Pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Thank you again, gemma. So, matt, let's get into these actionable takeaways, uh, from today's episode. You know there's a lot to unpack but a lot for advisors to gain, uh from this, from this uh report and the conversation from Gemma too. So give us those actual takeaways and then, if you can wrap everything up for us, matt, that'd be fantastic.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Now you're spot on, stevie. There was so much to take away from today's session. I think it's going to be really impactful for advisors. I think the thing to think about this is let's just talk about those beginning advisors first, so we'll talk about those who are kind of just getting started in the industry. While maybe this is something that's fairly new to them this idea of doing either multi-benefit or even menu plan arrangements I think you shouldn't overlook the menu. It's not just for experts who've been doing the job for a long time. So if you've never used a multi-benefit plan or a menu plan before, start to recognize that it's a way to add even more value or potentially save some money for your clients, so make their investment even more cost effective. It's absolutely not complicated at all. As you heard from the conversation you just had with Gemma. It's actually just about having structured thinking. That sits behind it.

Speaker 2:

The other thing I took away from the conversation with Gemma that's really important for beginning advisors to start with, or those who maybe with less experience, is to think about starting with the client's individual risk needs first, then explore how you can bundle options together, so you know, thinking about how to prioritize those concerns and then work about how we kind of like structure around it. So those match those concerns, the products, and then start to look how you might want to combine them together into a meal deal, so to speak, speaking of which again shifting the language and changing the perception. So I've put down here use meal deal language, not jargon, so a menu plan, explain it to a customer. A menu plan lets you mix and match exactly what you need a bit like a meal deal and it's often better value together than buying separately. So try to do things like that, where you explain it to the customer in a contextual way that kind of makes sense, rather than over-explaining policy types. I've also put here about leveraging provider tools and case studies. So what I found really interesting was when Gemma and I were talking, it was this idea that you know when using something like Solution Builder or any kind of resources within platforms, often they provide those options for you automatically when you're doing your sourcing. So use resources within sourcing platforms such as Solution Builder or on provider quoting portals to identify and demonstrate to the customer how a menu plan with a couple of benefits two or three benefits could potentially offer them even greater value and cost only marginally more than, say, a standalone version of those policies, because that visual proof tends to help drive action.

Speaker 2:

And then I was going to say one of the smart things to do and I always talk about this when I'm doing any kind of coaching work with any firm or any advisor is, at the end of the day, it's about taking action. So what I'd say is anyone that hasn't done one before, try doing one this week. Just try doing one this week with one of the clients you speak to this week. Just pick one and see how a multi-benefit recommendation compares to standalone options. And even if they don't go ahead, you will have tried it, you'll have learned something useful and you'll take one step closer to try and embed it into your advice processes.

Speaker 2:

Now let's explore what to do with sort of intermediate advisors, those who are trying to really become more like a protection expert or protection professional. So this is about kind of structure, confidence and even balancing that value with the client's budget or available spend. What I would say is number one thing for more experienced advisors is to try and build a menu plan framework. What I mean by this is create a repeatable prioritization method. So this was really important for me as an advisor I worked out, as I said to Gemma, for me it's about having that logical prioritization model to use with every client, starting with replacing income first of all, and then you can layer in things like critical onus and even life options for that greater degree of comprehensiveness and certainty, and that gives every client a well-rounded offer based on needs, not price, and that allows you to then build menu solutions within it.

Speaker 2:

Balancing cost versus risk exposure, another one. So don't just default to lowest cost mentality. If the client's biggest risk is income loss, show how reducing life cover or critical illness options slightly could unlock more available spend towards the income protection. And you can do that through menu plans by saying, well, let's cover the income protection comprehensively and add a bit of critical illness covering separately. So it's a trade-off, not an upsell, using multi-benefit discounts as a planning tool, not as a sales tactic. So the more we protect, the better value the overall plan becomes, which means we can prioritize what matters most without paying more.

Speaker 2:

So again, a different approach you can take with customers and then handling objections with layered logic. So if a client says I just want life cover, for example, or would it be also helpful to protect your income or illness if you stop working. That way we can potentially cover both under the same plan, just for a marginal increase in the investment that you're making, and that way you've always got the money to actually pay the premiums for the life insurance, for example. So layering it together in a multi-benefited way, the customer can see the value of what you're doing. And then going back and reviewing previous cases, so maybe historically you've done single benefit options for clients, whether you've just done one life plan or something separately. They've only took life insurance or maybe even only income protection or even only critical illness. So go back to some of those cases and look at how you might be able to structure a menu arrangement to give even more value and potentially increase the comprehensiveness of that recommendation so the client is more resilient and better protected protected Again, advanced ones.

Speaker 2:

So this is going on to those advisors who've maybe done the job a while, maybe a bit more confident, a bit more competent, and they're just looking to kind of like expand on what they do. So I would say for those guys, maybe make menu planning a bit of a default, not an exception. So think about not just offering, say, life or IP independently, but offer a bit of a strategy so how you can do it with every customer to build a structured menu plan and multi-benefit arrangement for everything. And start with you know what's the best layered protection for this client and what's a priority, and how can we do it effectively. I would also talk about systemizing your advice model, so thinking about creating internal templates or even checklists for you and your team to run through what questions to ask, how to balance the benefits sorry, which providers to use for different types of categories, and then train your other advisors to have those high value conversations where you're building menu structures for every client. You speak to Tracking and benchmarking menu plan conversion rate.

Speaker 2:

I thought this was a really interesting thing to do for the more comprehensive or more competent advisors Using platform data, those types of MI analyses, to really understand how you're doing it and the impact it's having on the overall nature of the advice you're giving. Is it allowing you to make more comprehensive recommendations? Is it producing cost savings for the clients and how can you leverage that MI to then increase the comprehensiveness of recommendations in the future? Influencing firms culture Again, this is an interesting one. I've thought about how we encourage everyone in the business, from sort of junior mortgage advisors, paraplanners or even junior colleagues, to adopt menu logic. So what was really interesting about the conversation I had with Gemma was it was almost implied that the benefit or the quality of the conversation she's having with the customer a lot comes down to how the mortgage advisor is positioning it first before they come over to her. So that's something to bear in mind. So maybe if you're in more advanced business, you could look at how you can start to train those advisors to think along the same lines in terms of the prioritizations, the comprehensiveness, so that's then threaded through that conversation before it reaches the protection advisor potentially, and then using data to drive strategy.

Speaker 2:

So integrate some of the insights we heard from Zoe that we heard in, like iPipelines, termin, healthwatch, to adjust your positioning, for example. So highlight that menu usage is growing fastest amongst advisors, delivering top protection outcomes. You know I wrote down here IPs up 15%. So why not play on these statistics when you're providing that advice to customers to give them reassurances that they're making smart choices based on what's happening in the market? So leveraging MI and data to actually really add even more structure to your advice recommendations so that the customer can feel confident in their decisions and that they're doing the right thing and they're not doing something outside the norm. So that's a great way of doing it.

Speaker 2:

Now, I think for me, kind of takeaways are menu plans are clearly growing, mainly because they allow for that tailored, flexible advice, but do so in a way where we're driving even more value to the customer. Potentially, if they're getting discounts or streamlining underwriting, it makes a lot of sense to do it. So don't close your eyes to these opportunities. I think it's really important that you embrace them, because it means you can add even more value as part of your advice recommendations. I think advisors using these plans tend to be offering more comprehensive, value-led advice where they're really solutionizing for the customer. If you've got a customer that you know is struggling on an underwriting perspective and you've got one provider or two providers who are particularly lenient on that issue, it makes a lot of sense to bundle it together where you're going to streamline the process, get the client protected and reduce the limitations and challenges associated with getting that cover.

Speaker 2:

On risk, again, tools and technology. So one thing I'd summarize is tools and technology are making this easier than ever, so start integrating them into your workflow, into your advice process, leverage the reports, leverage the MI, leverage the technology. As I say, when you're doing sourcing, a lot of the platforms now will give you various different layers of what to do and how to bundle it, and the impact is going to have both on value and outcomes for customers. So my advice is don't shut your eyes to these things. Good advisors are embracing them and use them to add even more value, to produce even better outcomes and hopefully get more policies on risk and keep them there. So don't close your eyes to these opportunities. I think they're out there to help you do better for your customers and produce even better outcomes.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic Wrapping up, matt, as usual. Thank you so so much. So that's it for this month's episode. People, a quick reminder to subscribe, rate and share the podcast if you are finding it useful, and remember to claim your unstructured CPD points for today's episode. And as you heard in the episode earlier, we have now launched our TikTok channel. You can find us on at IBTF to check out the content there and make sure you're also following us on LinkedIn, instagram and YouTube too. Some other big news to report Income Protection Action Week registrations are now open, so head over to the IBTiptf website, iptfcouk, to register now. And finally, in next month's episode we will be looking at consumer duty three years on. So do get your questions in for that via info at iptfcouk. But for now, we'll see you next time for more. Let's Talk Income Protection. Goodbye, let's Talk. Income Protection is produced by Sea Studios.