SE1:EP2 - Embracing the Lifeline of Income Protection with Hanna McKallip and Charlotte Rogers

In today's episode

Have you ever wondered about the moments that define our dedication to certain aspects of our lives? Hanna McKallip and Charlotte Rogers, two financial advisers with compelling personal connections to income protection, sit down with us to unpack why this topic is more than just a policy—it's a life raft in turbulent waters. Their stories are the cornerstone of our latest 'Let's Talk IP' episode, shining a light on the real-world implications of unforeseen events and the financial resilience income protection can provide.

Next, we answer your questions in #AskIPTF - where you get the chance to ask your burning questions and big news, the IPTF Hotline is now open for your WhatsApp voice notes, so please do send them in via +44 7442 247280 or if you don't fancy leaving a voice note, you can email us on LetsTalkIPPodcast@gmail.com, or use the #AskIPTF on social.

Finally, we have Matt's top tips, not one to miss - where Matt gives tips on not defaulting to short-term plans and bringing your conversations to life.
 
We also touch on the IPTF's latest initiatives, including welcoming new advisors to our Task Force, inviting listeners to engage with us on our freshly minted Instagram page and this year's adviser survey (https://tinyurl.com/yenmxuay) so please go and complete that! 

Don't miss the collaborative wisdom and industry insights that are transforming the conversation around income protection—one episode at a time.

📣 For More Education, Collaboration and Insight:

IPTF Website
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Produced and edited by SEA Studios

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:10

Hello and welcome to let's Talk IP by the Income Protection Task Force, the podcast that shines a light on the often overlooked but vital insurance income protection. In this new podcast series, we're going to share powerful stories, simple techniques and tips for refining your advice process, and we'll answer your burning questions so that you can support your clients and provide them with the best protection possible. That's whether you're a seasoned financial advisor or just someone who's eager to enhance your financial literacy, let's Talk IP is an essential resource for understanding the importance of income protection in securing a stable financial future for your clients. I'm your host, matthew Chapman, aka the Protection Coach, and welcome to Season 1, episode 2 of let's Talk IP. Welcome to the show. Thanks again for tuning in to Episode 2.

Coming up on today's show

Speaker 1 1:02

Firstly, I just want to say a massive thank you to everyone who listened to the first inaugural episode of let's Talk IP. It means a huge amount to me and everyone else involved that you took the time to listen to the podcast. We've had some amazing feedback so far. I've actually been gobsmacked at how positive the feedback's been, and we'll share some of that a bit later on in the show. We've had a fantastic number of downloads already and, of course, we always want more. So all I would ask is for those of you who haven't yet please listen to the podcast episode one. Please share it with those that you know. Put it on your social feeds Every time you do. It helps us grow the audience. It helps more people listen to the podcast and hopefully have more positive conversations with their customers. A huge thank you to everyone who has already listened and shared it. I really appreciate all your support.

Interview with Hanna McKallip and Charlotte Rogers

Speaker 1 1:47

So what's coming up on today's show? This month we've welcomed a new cohort of seven advisors to the IPTF family, and our previous year's cohort have now become our seven ambassadors. And guess what? We have not one, but two special guests representing each of these camps on the show today to talk IP More on those two shortly. Next, we'll be delving more into the feedback and the thoughts. Post-episode one. We'll answer some of your burning questions in Ask IPTF, and the hotline is now open to get your voice notes in, and I'll be providing that number for you later on in the show. And finally, as always, it's my top tips of the week. It's never one to miss. It's going to be jam-packed with great tips, so stay tuned until the very end of the show to hear what I've got to say Now.

Speaker 1 2:35

This month, the IPTF welcomed this new cohort of seven advisors and for those of you who don't know what the seven advisors campaign is, seven different advisors are selected by the IPTF who then share a series of video diary entries throughout the year, providing insight into their professional lives, the challenges they face and the successes that they enjoy. With these new advisors on board, our first inaugural group of 7 advisors have now become our first set of ambassadors and to represent both groups, we've got Ambassador Hannah McCallip from Premier Plus and Seven Advisor Charlotte Rogers from Radcliffe Co here with us today to talk IP Guys. Thank you very much for joining me today. I really appreciate you coming on to this second episode of let's Talk IP so quickly. I'm just going to come to you guys. If you wouldn't mind, hannah, tell us a bit about yourself. How long have you been advised from where you're working now?

Speaker 2 3:28

Yeah, sure. So yeah, I'm Hannah McCallip. I've been an advisor in the protection only industry now for 18 months, and before that I was advising in mortgages for a year, so a little bit of advising experience now. At the moment I'm based um with a local ifa premier plus and we are in st neots in cambridgeshire fantastic.

Speaker 1 3:50

So I guess you might say that you know you've gone to the dark side, going to protection only, but I would argue you've probably gone to the right yes, that's my opinion, no offense more over to you, charlotte. So how long have you been an advisor and where are you currently working?

Speaker 4 4:02

Hi everyone. So I've actually been advising for four years now, and I work for an IFA practice called Radcliffe Co based in Southampton. They're independent financial advisors. Prior to that, though, I did spend 10 years as BDM and account manager for various providers, so income protection has been part of my conversation for the best part of 14 years now.

Speaker 1 4:27

Amazing. Well, welcome to you both and thank you again for joining me today. It's really great to have you on, interesting that you both work for IFA practices and, obviously, to have two such passionate protection advocates, it's really interesting. So, yeah, we'll get into that in a little bit. So what I'm going to do, if it's okay, quickly, quickly, hannah, I'm really keen. So let's talk about seven advisors, right? So tell me about seven advisors. So you've been one of the inaugural seven advisors for the last 12 months, which was the new initiative that was launched by the IPTF Really fascinating, exciting initiative showcasing seven advisors who are out there giving advice and kind of getting to learn all about your experiences, what's going well for you, what's not going well, the kind of conversation you're having. And, as someone who was one of the inaugural seven advisors, how would you summarize your time as one of the first seven advisors?

Speaker 2 5:10

I'd summarize it as quite a journey. So when I said yes to being one of the seven advisors, I'd only been in my current position for three months, so I just threw myself right in at the deep end and just saw whatever kind of comes from this, I'll just take that on board. So yeah, from that, so many doors have opened, I've met so many people and it really has shaped me into the advisor that I am today. Where I would be without it, I'm not too sure. Prior to that, I'd never sold income protection before, so it was a real eye opener and it helped me to build up my skills to be where I am now.

Speaker 1 5:46

Wow, and I guess for you then, as someone who hadn't done income protection before, probably quite a steep learning curve, right? Yes, I can imagine that's brilliant, that's fantastic. So I guess what's your biggest takeaway from being one of the seven advisors? What's your biggest takeaway from that initiative?

Speaker 2 5:59

My biggest takeaway is to be more collaborative. So the whole project itself was collaborative. It's very core, you know, with the other advisors. Um, we had access to each other through a whatsapp group, so any questions that we had, we just throw them in there and then you eventually came into the group chat as well and that meant that we could pick your brains at the same time. Um, so, yeah, it had a collaborative aspect to it initially, but it then spread across the industry and the wider networks as well. Um, that you could just be a bit more collaborative when you were talking to people and more people would reach out and offer up opportunities, which was just great.

Speaker 1 6:36

That's so nice to hear because I think I think people underestimate the power of that collaboration. You know, as an industry we we do have a lot of these collaborative projects together and it's really nice when you meet like-minded people. And I think one of the things I talked about in the previous podcast was about having like a protection buddy or someone that you can bounce ideas and thoughts off. And I think having other people that think and act like you, that work in the industry, is a great way to kind of further your skills, learn new techniques, techniques and kind of be reminded the importance of what it is we do as protection advisors. That's that's really lovely to hear, and am I right in thinking that you've also? You've been shortlisted for a couple of awards. You've been, you've been nominated for a couple. You've done quite a lot since, since being coming as seven advisors is that right?

Speaker 2 7:18

yes, so I've. Um, yeah, so I was shortlisted for a few. I won the cover Rising Star last year, and then I was highly highly commended at Protection Review and Protection Guru Awards. I'm also up for another award at the Women in Protection cover awards, and I'm now an ambassador for Women in Protection as well. So, yeah, I've been. I've kept myself very busy.

Speaker 1 7:42

That is amazing If you think about the doors potentially that have been opened as a result of that initiative. I think that's wonderful to hear. Many congratulations Richly deserved, might I add. You've been a fantastic member of the team. It's been so wonderful to see you kind of blossom into the advisor that you are. So many congratulations, that's brilliant. That's really really good Over to you. Then, charlotte, so obviously, obviously you're one of the new cohort of seven advisors and as you're at the start of that journey, perhaps you could share with everyone that's listening kind of what your hopes are for the year ahead, having listened to what Hannah's just said.

Speaker 4 8:13

Yeah, I mean I'm really excited to be part of the next tranche, if you like, of advisors.

Speaker 4 8:18

As I said, income protection's been the foundation of all of my protection conversations ever since I've been in the industry, starting when I was at LV, who are arguably still one of the market leaders in terms of their income protection propositions. So all of my training, all throughout my career, has always been with income protection at the forefront. So when I approached, when I wanted to be a part of the Seven Advisors campaign, I'm most excited, I think, at just getting that message reiterated to a different audience. I spent 10 years working directly with advisors as a BDM, but now I can bring a different side to those conversations. Now I'm an advisor myself and I'm having those income protection conversations with my clients. I feel like just by having more and more conversations we can all motor together to get the nation better protected and get income better protected, and just using all of the experience that has been there in the past that we can build on and the passion that these advisors bring to the table means that changes will happen in the market and that's what I'm most excited about.

Speaker 1 9:30

That's absolutely brilliant. I mean, what a great response and I couldn't agree more. I think the very purpose of the Income Protection Task Force obviously is to raise awareness of income protection and trying to get more people prioritising protecting their income sources, which I completely agree with, by the way. I think it should be the foundation, the cornerstone of everyone's advice recommendations. But again, so interesting to see the difference between the two of you. So obviously you're both IP converts.

Speaker 1 9:50

I can see that, as that's absolutely clear that you guys are big believers in income protection. But interesting to see how Hannah maybe hadn't done it before, joined Seven Advisors, is now then I wouldn't say a convert, she's just an advocate for income protection and has become a lot more confident in talking about it with clients. And then you, charlotte, coming from that sort of BDM provider background, already believing in the importance of income protection. Just interesting to see the different play. But lovely to see that you're both so passionate. So part of what we try and do in this podcast is kind of establish the advisors why, if you like, with regards to income protection. So I guess it'd be great to understand from each of you what's the kind of the moment. Was there anything specific that kind of suddenly shifted your mind to think you know what income protection is the solution. It is the foundation on which we can build more resilient households. So, starting with you, hannah, was there a moment that that happened for you?

Speaker 2 10:41

There was. Interestingly, it wasn't when I became a protection only advisor. It was actually something that happened to me in the past that I think when I started learning about the income protection product itself and what it could do, I then reflected on an instance that happened and thought, actually, that is exactly why it is so important. So when I worked for nationwide um, I was based in the branch during COVID. That could be a whole other podcast episode, so I'm just going to leave that there. That was just absolutely insane.

Speaker 2 11:15

And unfortunately there was an instance where I was in the branch and I had a threat to my life from one of the members. At the time I didn't think it really impacted me that much, you know, I just got on with the rest of the members. Um, at the time I didn't think it really impacted me that much, you know, I just got on with the rest of the day, did what I had to do police, all of that. But the next day I could not put my uniform on. It was just on the end of my bed. I was looking at it, could not pick it up. I texted my manager and said I don't think. I think I'm in. He said, yeah, I'm not surprised I wouldn't. I wasn't expecting you in and that then led to me being off for a month. So I was paid for the whole time that I was off and I would have been paid for longer if I hadn't been able to go back. It resulted in me being diagnosed with anxiety. I was put on sertraline.

Speaker 2 11:58

It really impacted my life in a massive way. When it was happening I didn't think anything of it. Um, and so then when I started you know, selling income protection, talking to people about their sick pays, I then looked back on that time and thought I was so lucky to have quite you know, it's a quite a comprehensive sick pay from from nationwide, but they all have their own limits and that's much the same with most other people and their employers. So I then looked back on that and what would have happened if I didn't have that? I wouldn't have been able to pay my rent, I wouldn't have been able to pay for my car, all the other bills. Everything would have just stopped. You know, family help can only go so far as well. So, yeah, it wasn't that I had a light bulb moment with, say, a client, it was more that I then knew exactly what I would be like if I didn't have that sick pay. And now being self-employed is even more important.

Speaker 1 12:52

So it just solidifies my advice when I'm talking to my clients. Definitely. And I think that's such a great example because I think personal experiences and anything that we as individual advisors can relate back to our own experiences are always going to be incredibly powerful when you're communicating to a customer, Because I think the danger when you're advising on things like income protection is how do we bring it to life. Most people have this optimism bias, don't they, that, oh, it's never going to happen to me, I'm never going to be ill. So when we've got those personal experiences, whether it was a positive outcome or not, isn't the point? In some respects? It's more something to draw on as inspiration. Isn't the point? In some respects, it's more something to draw on as inspiration, as influence for you to be able to have that conversation with the customer and bring that need to protection for life. So I love that.

Speaker 1 13:30

Obviously, I'm sorry to hear about what happened to you. That's very disturbing and I can only imagine how strenuous and challenging that was. But well done you for turning that into something hopefully now quite positive when it comes to protecting more of your customers. So you know, hats off to you on that one. What about you, Charlotte? You know what's obviously I know you mentioned you were working at LV. You've been a BDM, so was there a moment for you where it just kind of all came together, or has it always been something that's been in your DNA, so to speak?

Speaker 4 13:57

No, absolutely. There was a pivotal moment when I was at LV, you know, I was promoting the benefits of income protection policies to my advisors and encouraging them to sell more IP. But it was prior to that. All the pieces of the puzzle kind of came together for me one day, as I was going through my initial training, when I realized that the reason that I still lived in my family home at that time I just left university, you know moved back home to the family home, and the reason I was able to do that was because of an income protection policy.

Speaker 4 14:34

My dad hadn't worked for 15 years up to that point. And it was only when I went home and I said to him that evening I figured it out, I figured out how you've been able to afford everything. And he was like well, what do you mean? And I said well, you've been claiming on an income protection policy, haven't you? And he's of the generation that you know, you don't talk about finances, that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 14:57

But all of the pieces of the puzzle fell into place, like how could he keep a house going? How could I go to university? How did my sister have all of the opportunities that got presented to her. How did my mom not have to go out and get a better paid job or anything like that? But they could still pay bills, we could still go on holiday and, as far as I was concerned, as I was going through my A-levels and beyond, my life was relatively unaffected, even though my dad wasn't working anymore.

Speaker 4 15:24

That kind of just solidified in my head how important having the right protection was in place. Because actually, when we started to have that extra conversation with him and me asking, well, what would have been the alternative if you had no income and he was honest he was like well, my pension would have frozen. So you know, I hear, in effect, retired at the age of 40 something or whatever it was, they would have had to have moved downsized, perhaps moved out of area to afford somewhere and have enough money to live until you reach pension age and all of these things that you don't think about. It's only in hindsight where you think well, the implications could have been so much different. So that was at that point where I became super passionate about income protection because, to be completely frank, my childhood and my early years at university and into early adulthood would not have been the same without an income protection policy.

Speaker 1 16:18

That is an incredibly, incredibly powerful example. And do you know why? It's almost the perfect example in my mind? Because a lot of people talk about income protection but there's this kind of a natural default towards short-term plans and I think yours is almost the perfect example of why a full-term policy is so pivotal. Because this argument that, oh, long-term illnesses don't happen we know with the statistics that the average claim is typically over seven years and eight months.

Speaker 1 16:45

And we know, in cases like yours, where your dad was off for as many years as he was, these things are happening in households all across the UK and I think to hear that example firstly, like you said, solidifies the need for it and it kind of really cements that you know what actually it isn't just about a couple of years worth of income. It's about knowing you've always got that recurring income coming in that absolutely everybody needs, because the bills never stop, do they? I mean they literally never stop. What I love about what you mentioned there was about the pension as well, because this is something we talked about in the previous podcast, and pension as well, because this is something we talked about in the previous podcast and I think a lot of people forget about all these ancillary things that they would lose, that have intrinsic value. And it's not even losing about the investment you make in the pension today. It's about the compounding interest you'd get over the life of the investment, right. So it's so critical to think about these things and I think what a powerful example that's then given you that kind of mindset to go into talking about income protection with everyone with that absolute knowledge and certainty in your own mind of the value of what it can do for people. So what a great example.

Speaker 1 17:50

Thank you for sharing it. Both of you, I mean they're both amazing examples. So thank you for sharing them. I just mentioned mindset and I think you guys probably if you listen to the first one, you'll recognize that we touched on the importance of advisor mindset. When I was chatting to Kieran I was saying mindset's probably for me, one of the biggest things when you're having an effective conversation with the client. It's like the key to entering the conversation with the right kind of attitude and impetus. So if you guys, if it would be possible, if you've got a tip for the advisors that are listening out there, what would be your top mindset tip for advisors, starting with you, please, hannah.

Speaker 2 18:23

So I've kind of got two One that's specific to income protection and another which I think kind of goes across all of them. With the income protection, it's if you're earning an income, if you're earning a salary, it should be protected. End of Doesn't matter what you've got that's going out it gallery, it should be protected. End of doesn't matter what you've got that's going out, it should be protected. And that's kind of my specific one to that and the one that I use with most of my clients. You know, sometimes some people just need a bit more convincing and that is usually the one that I'll kind of take to them and say you know, this one thing that you have gives you so much but you're not protecting it. Why? What would happen? What is the reality if it stops? My other one, which is a bit more broad and can be applied to income protection for all areas of advice. Any AIG listeners will have already heard it. I've spoken to them about it and it's on their motivational wall down in Reigate. It is my just say yes mantra. So just say yes got me into this position as a seven advisor. Just say yes got me to my nominations. It got me as a women in protection ambassador. So I think just by saying yes to anything that kind of comes up, it will make you a better advisor and it will give you other opportunities, other conversations.

Speaker 2 19:35

I had a client quite early on. A client say oh, do you do home visits? And initially I thought, oh, no, I can't do that. It was probably more of a you know post covid thinking, oh, I'm not sure that's allowed. And from being at a building society where everything is tracked, I thought, oh, don't know, and I thought actually I'm self-employed, I can just do that. So I just said yes, went over and now I offer home visits to nearly all of my clients and I get a really, really good success rate and it's something so small. But you know that particular client, they just had a baby and she was like it's just a lot for us to come up into the office. We prefer face-to-face appointments. I don't like the phone. Could you do it? And I just said yes. And we've now got a really, really good relationship and they took out all of the recommendations. You know, I think being in person solidifies it to them. So yeah, it's something that can kind of be applied to all areas of your advice, I feel.

Speaker 1 20:23

I love that. So I guess the takeaway from that, then, is obviously believe in the importance of income. That's kind of the number one thing. It's like when you're going to any conversation from a mindset perspective, it's just like, look, income is the be all and end all. If you're earning an income, you need to protect it. That's a great takeaway. And the other one is just say yes. I love that because it just it kind of really really encapsulates what it's we're talking about. Just say, yes, look, you need an income. Just say, yes, you want to pay for that. Just say, yes, everything is hindered around this whole income thing. So everything's hinged around that. So no, what like a whole income thing? So everything's hinged around that. So, no, what great. What great examples. I love that. Over to you then, charlotte. What are your top mindset tips, then, for advisors?

Speaker 4 21:06

do you think? From my perspective, I think it's just from any advisor put yourself in your own shoes, if that makes sense. So what would you do? So if something catastrophic was to happen to you? It doesn't have to be illness. It can be something more sudden than that, like an accident. It doesn't have to be illness, it can be something more sudden than that like an accident. But what would you do if your income stopped tomorrow? What would you do?

Speaker 4 21:23

And if you're not having the same conversations and putting your clients in that same position, are we doing the best for our clients? It's something I think about all the time when I'm talking to my clients and they're not quite bought into the idea of being poorly. Talk about stories, talk about examples, think about where we've seen local examples in your local area where people have been crowdfunding or where they're scraping together the pennies to try and pay for the next electricity bill that kind of situation. And if we're not having those conversations, should we really be advising the clients in this way? Put ourselves in our client situation and ask ourselves what would we do?

Speaker 1 22:06

I love that and this is funny because in the coaching sessions that I do with a lot of advisors and a lot of firms, it's a very similar thing I talk about when we get into the mindset thing. I even say to them what I want you to do is imagine that you're not giving advice to some faceless customer that you're not going to see for another 12 months or two years. Imagine that's your mum, your sister, your brother, someone that you care deeply about. Would your advice look different if you were looking them in the eyes? And I think that's a great way to keep us honest and I think you're absolutely right. We've got to be very sincere as advisors and saying am I doing the best job possible for the customer I'm sat in front of. Whether you're tired, irritable, you've had a bad day, whatever's happened, it doesn't make any difference at all, because it's not you we're talking about. It's the customer, their family, their loved ones, the people they care about.

Speaker 1 22:51

And we've got to make sure as advisors, that we leave all that stuff at the door, that nonsense and kind of like you quite rightly say just make sure that we're always looking to do the best we can for our customers. It is all about outcomes, right, and there's a connection between income and outcome as far as I'm concerned. So you are spot on there, charlotte. It's all about the outcomes. So those are really great tips, guys. They're absolutely fantastic tips. Now, as you probably know, iptf and the very concept of what we're doing with this podcast and everything else we do with the other initiatives is all about supporting advisors right To have these conversations with their clients a lot more effectively. So if you had one ask of the industry, something practical that we could get done as an industry, you know it could be an individual, it could be all of the industry. What would it actually be Over to you?

Speaker 2 23:33

Hannah. So I think and I don't know how it would kind of be put into action, but I suppose the linking back to my previous point about how collaboration and a collaborative project, what can be born out of that, I think to have other opportunities for collaborative events, be that more networking events, where it's not so much that you're sitting and listening to a panel, that you're actually having like focus group talks, things like that. Um, other kind of drop-in sessions. I don't know, but I think the my best ideas or my best conversations are happening when I'm advisor to advisor. Um, it is helpful to talk to your bdms and the higher ups, but there's only so much you can kind of glean from them, because most of the time they've either advised a long time ago or some of them haven't advised, and sometimes they just don't really understand some of the frustrations, whereas you talk to another advisor, they get it almost instantly. Um, so yeah, to have more collaborative options. I suppose you know the seven advisors is that in the, with the posts that come out in the videos, it's not just the seven advisors that are having that collaborative kind of chat between themselves, it's everybody getting involved, commenting on it.

Speaker 2 24:46

Now, with this podcast. This is another option to be kind of collaborative and potentially reach out from the things that you might hear. You know people may listen to these podcasts and then think, actually, I'm gonna just drop them an email and pick them up on that. I mean, I did that with ash Borland off of the back of iPaw and that's actually how I got into the IPTF, because I listened to the practical protection podcast and I heard Andrew on it and then when I saw him at a cover event I thought, oh, I know that voice and that was where that was kind of from. So again it's, it's all about doors, collaboration, but to have more options like that, I think, that are not just income protection based but everything. I think that's what I would ask for in the industry.

Speaker 1 25:25

I think that's a really, really great point. I mean, obviously we mentioned about earlier about the protection buddy and having that, and you look at what seven advisors and having that collaborative framework's done for you in the past 12 months and you think about how much you've gained, how much you've learned, how much you've grown as an advisor and as an individual, what you've achieved in terms of recognition. It's quite phenomenal and you kind of think, imagine if you could scale something like that up for more and more advisors to get similar sort of exposure and support from their peers. You know it's a funny one because as a coach I often say to people that you might think that I act like I'll go into a coaching session with a firm and act like I know everything and that really I can't learn anything of them. They're learning from me. But it's quite the opposite. I genuinely mean this that when I'm coaching a lot of firms I learn as much from the advisors as they probably do from me, because they might do things a slightly different way, they might have a slightly different type of product knowledge and there's always going to be something. I mean, there's a great firm I work with up in Scotland and one of their like sales guys. I was chatting to him and he gave me some amazing tips on how to communicate and I've used it now in my coaching.

Speaker 1 26:27

It's kind of it's enveloped into what I do and it's made me better and I think every day is a school day, right? And I kind of think that you're right, Hannah. If we could do more collaborative stuff, if we can educate and share best practice, it's only going to have positive outcomes, because I think a lot of advisors and correct me if I'm wrong, guys, you might you might feel the same that for a while I felt like a bit of a silo, Like I just felt like a one man band and, you know, although I had people I could speak to in my own, in my own business, I still felt a little bit isolated within the industry. And it was only when I started doing these types of things and doing exactly the kind of stuff you were talking about and going to events and meeting people and talking that I found actually there's a lot of people out there that think and act just like me and I just need to associate myself with them, spend more time with them, learn from them, engage with them, because it's been phenomenal for me and it's made me a much better advisor, and I just think no one's going to lose out when you do those kind of things, because you'll see there's a completely different way of doing things and probably a way that's a lot easier than what you're doing now, which is kind of the biggest takeaway that I had when I started collaborating with us, but that's a really great one. That's a really great one, Hannah.

Speaker 1 27:28

And what about you, Charlotte?

Speaker 4 27:39

And what would be the one thing that you would ask of the industry if say, I've got two things, but my biggest one is to educate what Hannah was saying. But I'm going to do a bit of a plug now for the seven families campaign and the 10th anniversary this year. Seven families really highlighted to me when I first was born, if you like, the the impact that the value-added services and the extra support that goes alongside an income protection policy can have. It's all very well, we've been talking about income, but it's everything that goes alongside an income protection policy the physio, the rehab, the occupational support, all of that for the ill person and their families, and seven families. If you haven't watched the videos, I really encourage every advisor just to watch, even if you just follow one story through, and you can really see the benefit that an income protection policy can offer in addition to a monthly payment each month.

Speaker 1 28:27

Um, so that my biggest takeaway is education, definitely, and that what a great point. I mean education is everything, whether it's educating yourself or educating the customer. The whole point is when people are made aware of how important income is just like happened in your case, you know, when you became aware of how important it was for your own family it's suddenly your eyes open to the whole concept and you realize that actually, a tiny investment in protecting your own income is inconsequential compared to potential losses that you might suffer and what you'd have to give up and compromise on if your income stops. And I think you're absolutely right. Seven Families was a really groundbreaking initiative and, I think, really did so much for income protection in terms of bringing the whole concept to life, showing what actually happens in households when an income stops, what are the outcomes and the consequences and the fact that anybody can be touched and impacted by a loss of income. And I think it was one of those things that we'll be celebrating for decades to come, because I really do think it was almost like a door opening moment, like an awakening moment for the industry, and clearly has had a strong impact on you as well. So that's absolutely brilliant.

#AskIPTF

Speaker 1 29:33

Listen, guys, we're getting close towards the end of the interview and I'm really grateful for your time. You've given some fantastic answers and you guys are clearly such amazing advisors. It's so brilliant to listen to you guys speak. I've actually learned quite a lot from you guys today as well, which is brilliant. But very quickly I'm going to ask you this have you guys ever come across a really strange occupation when you've been doing your advice? You come across a client and thought that's a very Hannah. Have you ever come across a really strange occupation when you've been quoting for income protection?

Speaker 2 30:05

I haven't yet, but I feel like it is brewing. You know, I've been doing it 18 months now, so I'm like there has to be someone coming soon that's going to be a bit strange.

Speaker 1 30:15

So far they've all been relatively normal.

Speaker 2 30:17

But I just know I'm going to get hit with something and think, oh, I don't know what to do with that. I've had strange interactions, but not so much an occupation, just yet so strange interactions.

Speaker 1 30:30

You might have to elaborate on that one. I'm sure everyone wants to know what you mean now yeah.

Speaker 2 30:33

so I'd say probably the most uh unusual was um. A client that um bmi conversation came up wasn't happy that they had been rated because of their BMI, so they decided to send a picture of themselves in their underwear to prove that they were fit and healthy. I said thank you very much. I don't think the underwriters are going to want that picture and I've also deleted it.

Speaker 1 31:01

I think you might have pulled there. Hannah, I think you might have pulled there.

Speaker 1 31:05

Hannah that's an amazing. You know, I think we've all had some strange experiences in the past. I was once dealing with a guy from GCHQ and it was, you know, trying to get information out of this guy because he was so reticent to give me anything. It was just like it wasn't going anywhere. It was so difficult. Yeah, really, really funny. I always find the BMI one quite a difficult one. You know, when you come across someone who's maybe a little bit sort of overweight and you know you're going to get a loading or even potentially, you know the policy is going to be, uh, declined because of bmi, I always find that quite a difficult thing to broach, and I imagine you guys have as well. But, um, yeah, it's one of those, it's one of those uncomfortable conversations, isn't it, with the customer. But you know we have to have these things and that's all part of the underwriting process, isn't it? What about yourself, charlotte? What's, um, what's the strangest occupation you've quoted for the most unusual request you've had?

Speaker 4 31:50

I've nothing on the hannah scale at all. Um, I've had some more exotic jobs. You know, people working on super yachts in the med and the caribbean. They've been quite exciting because you know, I watch below deck and I feel like I can immerse myself back into reality TV. But one of the strangest claims I heard was when I was at one of the providers I worked at and it was for a vet who was claiming on his income protection because since he'd become a vet, he then developed an allergy to animal fur which meant he could not do his own job. And I just that stuck with me. That must have been went way back when I very, very first started in the industry. One of the stories, the claim stories that we were hearing and I was like this is absolutely brilliant. Technically it is a claim. He can't do his own occupation. Um, but he will never do his own occupation and it's just, yeah, that's a bizarre one.

Speaker 1 32:48

That's always stuck with me I've got to ask did it pay out?

Speaker 4 32:52

yeah, yeah, I was at the provider I used to work at there you go.

Speaker 1 32:55

And that is the power of income protection, because this is the funny thing. It's like okay, and we shouldn't laugh because you know that's, that's someone's career. And I'm sure they were probably quite gutted that they couldn't do the job that they trained years to do. But I guess it does highlight, doesn't it just how it might not even be the sort of illness or injury that you would initially think is the reason you'd have to stop doing your job. And I think that's the power of income protection. When you think about the comprehensiveness of the plan and how many things are covered and it's not that I want to poo-poo on critical illness or anything but when you think, naturally critical illness is very finite in that these are predefined conditions and we don't quite know what's going to happen. I mean, you look at that guy as the example. You know there's a guy who's trained for a long time to become a veterinary doctor or surgeon and ends up in a situation where he becomes allergic to the animals that he's been trained to treat. And who can legislate for that? Who can predict that happening? And this is exactly what I mean we cannot control what happens to us. We don't know when it's going to happen to us, what's going to happen to us, how bad it's going to be, and the only way that we can be prepared for it is by ensuring the income that we use to pay everything that we've got, because then, whatever the eventualities, whatever comes our way, whatever income shocks we get, we know we're going to be okay and that peace of mind, in my opinion, is completely priceless, right? So what a guys. I can't thank you enough. It's been a really, really enjoyable interview and it's been lovely to kind of get to know. I mean, obviously I've met you before, hannah, but lovely to meet you, charlotte, and really lovely to chat with you both. So I'd just like to say, hannah McCallick from Premier Plus, charlotte Rogers from Radcliffe Co. Thank you both very much for coming on the show and I hope to see you guys very soon. Good luck with everything in the next year. So, hannah McCallip from Premier Plus and Charlotte Rogers from Radcliffe Co. Thank you both for joining the show today. Now Charlotte mentioned in the interview IPTF's Seven Families Initiative, which was very fitting as this year is the 10th anniversary of the initiative. So stay tuned to the IPTF's Seven Families Initiative, which was very fitting as this year is the 10th anniversary of the initiative, so stay tuned to the IPTF channels for much more on this this year.

Speaker 1 34:50

Now it's time to ask IPTF, where you get to be part of the show each week, as mentioned in our very first episode. This is the section of the show where we hear from you and potentially answer some of your burning questions. And big news the let's Talk IP hotline is now open. We want to hear your thoughts, your questions and your stories around IP, so please send us your voice notes to 07442 247 280. That's, 07442 247 280. And if you don't fancy leaving a voice note, you can always email us on letstalkippodcast at gmailcom, or just comment and post on LinkedIn X or our new Instagram account, ip Task Force UK, using the hashtag AskIPTF. Right, let's get into it, shall we? Hello, this is the let's Talk IP hotline Caller. You're on the line, hi, matt.

Matt's Top Tips of The week!

Speaker 1 35:39

I'm interested to know when age-bounded is appropriate and would you just use the illustration when cost is the most important driver. Wow, what a great question, mike. Thanks very much for posting it. Yeah, truth of it is, age-bounded can be a great solution for many people. Now I tend to say that age-bounded really should be the second option once you've exhausted the full-term max benefit guaranteed premium option, because that's really the default position. We want to make sure that our clients have that income protected all the way through their lifetime, and we learned that off Charlotte early, didn't we? The importance of making sure you've always got that lifelong income coming in. So, naturally, the full-term options will always be preferable to defaulting to a short-term one. So, whether that be with a guaranteed premium option or an age-banded one, now my general thoughts are this Age-banded is a viable option if your client feels that the cost of a full-term guaranteed benefit option is just too prohibitive for them.

Speaker 1 36:33

However, you need to make sure you caveat the risk to the client. We need to make sure that they understand that the problems could be that their premiums will continue to go up over time and eventually it will become prohibitively expensive. So if they foresee keeping the plan for a very long period of time, you do need to review it fairly regularly and ideally you'd probably want to replace it before it becomes prohibitively costly. However, the dangers of that are that if they have a medical condition, something happens to them, they have a claim. It could make it very difficult for them to replace the plan later on and they could be stuck with a plan that's very expensive which inevitably at some point they'll probably end up cancelling.

Speaker 1 37:06

So you just need to caveat that risk and obviously try and push the client more towards the full-term guaranteed option. It may be preferable to reduce the monthly benefit or look at how else you might tweak a guaranteed premium option before you go to an age-banded one. But I would still argue that an age-banded full-term plan will always trump a short-term one, particularly because the price difference won't be massive. Yet you're making sure the client has that lifelong income need that we know that they do desperately need. Mike Douglas there from Ramsey White, thanks for sending your voice note in Right caller number two. You're on the line.

Speaker 3 37:37

Hi Matt. It's Nicola here from Sphere Financial Services. My question is have you got any top tips on underwriting outcomes for selling income protection? I often find that advisors get put off starting this type of sale because they get a lot of bad underwriting outcomes and it puts them off.

Speaker 1 37:55

Thank you, what a great question there, nicola, and it's one that I'm sure affects a lot of advisors. We know, because of the comprehensive nature of income protection, the underwriting is usually going to be a little bit more strict, and we also know that lots of providers, once you get three exclusions, you might find the policy gets declined anyway. So for those with pre-existing conditions, it can be a more challenging underwriting process. This is to be expected. We're talking about one of the most comprehensive plans on the market. It's inevitable that those with pre-existing conditions are going to struggle to get cover in the same way that a normal person would, but I think the key here is being prepared. It's about doing your research first. So one of the things that I always encourage advisors that I'm coaching is to ask some basic questions upfront from your client. That doesn't have to be chapter and verse. You don't need to go into realms and realms of medical information, but you can ask a couple of key questions early on in your conversations that will help you determine whether this client's viable or whether you need to do additional research or whether it's likely they're going to get cover or not. So to give you an idea of the ones that I tend to ask and just to give you a bit of feedback, I tend to ask things like height and weight, smoker status, whether their parents or siblings have suffered from serious conditions before the age of 60. Are they on any medication? And the reason I ask that is because when they respond yes, typically they'll tell you the medication and it usually gives you an indication of what's wrong with them. Have they been off work for four weeks or more in the past five years for injuries or illness? Because we know that's something that's going to impact their access to cover potentially. Have they been diagnosed with any illnesses or conditions? The reason I ask that is because it's like casting a wide net. It's a catch-all question. It's likely to bring some sort of response from the client that you can then determine what's wrong with them and if it's likely, they'll get cover. But one of the really important things to ask before anything is are they experiencing any new symptoms or anything they're waiting results of tests for? Because if they are, you know it's likely to be deferred anyway. So that's one of the first questions to ask anybody, because it's going to tell you whether it's viable that you can move forward with them. And then finally, anxiety, stress, depression. That's a good one to know because you know again, if they respond yes to that, you can do a bit more digging to determine if it's likely they're going to get cover off the bat or whether there's going to be some potential exclusions. Now, this is not the perfect solution, but those kinds of questions, nicola, what they'll probably do is give you a very good flavor early on as to whether you need to do additional research or whether in fact the client is likely to be eligible for cover in the first place. So that's a great way of overcoming and tackling that issue, because you're managing the upfront, you're managing the client's expectations and, quite frankly, you're managing your own expectations. Hope that helps.

Speaker 1 40:18

That's Nicola Huxley there from Sphere Financial. Thank you both to Nicola and Mike for contributing to Ask IPTF this week. That number again, if you do want to send in your questions or your concerns or anything you need me to answer to get involved in the podcast, is 07442 247 280. Yo, matt, give me the top tips of the week, right? So let's get down to the fun bit, my top tips of the week.

IPTF News and Outro

Speaker 1 40:46

So I'm going to touch on two of the things that were topical in the conversation today. The first one is not defaulting to short-term plans. When we listened to Charlotte's story earlier, it was abundantly clear how important to her, her family and her household having that full-term plan was. Her dad was off work for over 15 years, she was saying in the interview. Now that's something to remember. If we think that most clients will probably claim somewhere between seven plus years, we know that a short-term plan is insufficient. So one of the tips I'm going to give you as an advisor is if you're struggling with that, if you're struggling to keep clients on the full-term options, it could be because you're offering a short-term in the first place.

Speaker 1 41:26

So one of the tips I'd give you is, when presenting income protection to your client, don't initially give them a short-term option. The short-term option, or even the age banded option, like in Mike's question, should probably be one of the last resort solutions once you've exhausted all of the different permutations and options of your full-term plan. So the idea there is give the client the full-term guaranteed max benefit option first, because you've set the benchmark high. Anything below that's going to seem like great value. So you can adjust and manipulate and tweak the various different elements of the plan to bring that price in for the client. But ultimately we're starting with what we know the client needs.

Speaker 1 42:02

I want you to think about this for a minute. When you quote a full-term guaranteed plan with maximum benefit, all you're really doing is giving the client near enough what they get today. So anything less than that is going to be insufficient to sustain the lifestyle they've got. So think about that for a minute. And when you're recommending your plans, start off in isolation with one option what the client needs. Once you've done that, if there's pushback, if there's objections, you can work with them, potentially to start going towards a short-term plan. But given how important it is to have an income for the rest of your life, as Charlotte so eloquently and beautifully explained in the interview, that would be my first top tip Make sure you're presenting the full-term guaranteed option first, and that's where you should start. That is the benchmark, and the second one is about bringing it to life.

Speaker 1 42:48

What I saw with both of the advisors I interviewed today was that they were bringing their conversations to life. Those eye-opening moments, those things that made them better as advisors, that made them see the value of income protection, was when they started to bring the concept of protection to life, for both themselves and for their customers. As I said a minute ago with Charlotte, we're looking at the idea that her family needed that income and it's what supported them through her younger years. It's what allowed her to pursue a career, it's what allowed her to go to university and achieve the life she wanted to enjoy, the lifestyle that she'd become accustomed to, and she even acknowledges without that income that would have been impossible. But just by explaining that was incredibly powerful. We all listened, we all got engaged and so naturally we can see the value of income protection when someone does that, and so she brought the concept to life.

Speaker 1 43:35

It wasn't about the product. It was about what that product did for her and her family, and the same with Hannah. If you look at what Hannah did, she said okay. Well then, she related it back to her own experiences. You know a traumatic period, and let's think about that for a minute. It wasn't the fact that anyone was violent towards her. It was the mental health impact of someone threatening her, and it came in a very different way to what she expected. It's resulted in anxiety and a number of different issues that maybe she would have initially thought would have been an issue for her, and so what she does is she uses her story to bring it to life.

Speaker 1 44:12

So, wherever possible, use the simplest analogies, the simplest examples, ones that clients can resonate with. Most people, you know will have come across someone in their life that suffered from a serious illness or been off work for an extended period of time, or had cancer. We all know someone that way. So we use these examples to bring protection to life for our customers and for them to see the value in it. And if you're struggling to think of examples, if you don't have any yourself, just use COVID.

Speaker 1 44:34

If you remember when we went into lockdown and it was about four years ago now from the launch of this particular episode, so it was around April time, 2020, we went into lockdown and what happened? We couldn't go to work, we couldn't generate an income, we had an income shock, and what was the government's response? To create the furlough scheme, which is just glorified national income protection A percentage of your salary paid to you because you can't go to work. Now, there's never been a better example in living memory of how to bring protection, particularly income protection, to life. So if you're struggling with those examples of how to bring it to life. Just draw on everyone's shared experience of COVID and the need for that furlough income. Those that got it will remember how valuable it was, and those that didn't will see the value in having an income because they didn't get it last time. Either way, whoever you're speaking to, when you bring it to life that way, they will see the value of income protection.

Speaker 1 45:24

Hope those tips have been helpful, guys, and that is that Episode two of the podcast. Done and dusted. Thank you again so much for listening and if you did enjoy today's episode, firstly, please do subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcast app so you don't miss an episode. And secondly, please do shout about it. It means so much to us. Get on your socials, link the podcast up, maybe even leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Every little helps.

Speaker 1 45:56

And some IPTF news to look out for. The advisor survey is now out. I actually put it on my LinkedIn page the other day, so if you need to go back to my post, you'll see it there and we would love you if you could lend just a few minutes to complete that survey. You can find the link on the IPTF LinkedIn page or on my post or in the description of today's episode. As mentioned earlier, we now have an Instagram page Amazing so if you're on the gram, please follow us on IP Task Force UK and, as always, you can find the IPTF over on X, at the IPTF or IPTF on LinkedIn and at iptfcouk. Thank you again for listening. It means the world to me. Let's Talk. Ip is produced and edited by C Studios, executive producers are Joe Miller, andrew Wibberley and Vicky Churcher and, as always, I'm Matt Chapman. Empower yourself, empower your clients and let's talk IP.